Posts by Sam the Man

23

Great Crowd vs. Other Sheep

by prophecor in

would someone briefly help me understand the divide that exist between the great crowd and the remnant, 144,000 who go to heaven?

what scriptural backing does the society use to justify their position that they are the only ones who are able to enjoy a covenant relationship with jesus christ, where those of the " great crowd " are only granted a relationship through extension through the 144,000?.

i've been around the truth for a large portion of my life, never really knowing this was an issue.

Sam the Man

Hi,

The Society points to Rev7:9, where it speaks of a 'great crowd' standing before the lamb. However, they insist that the term in the context 'standing before the lamb' is to be interpreted as standing on earth. The 144,000 however, stand before the lamb in heaven. They conveniently forget the fact that if we go to Rev19v1, we can see that the Great crowd stands in heaven.

They also insist that when Jesus Christ spoke of '" I have other sheep which are not of this fold…" (John 10:16). Apparently, Jesus was then addressing the 144000, which meant that he was referring to those of the earthly hope.

The Watchtower decided that 1935 was the cut off point, and anybody born after that date has an earthly hope. This is based on no scriptual fact whatsoever.

37

Hey Everyone.

by Sam the Man in

jw
friends

i've been lurking for some time and now its time for me to say hello.

i want to call myself sam on here to avoid any repercussions, whatever they may be i have learnt to cover my back in this life from the experiences i now ask if i may relate.

i was born into a black working class household in england to a mother who had remarried after splitting up with her first husband in barbados.

Sam the Man

Cheers everybody. There's some great support on here, thank you so much for the welcome. I appreciate every comment here. Thanks for the link as well, I am a fan of Randy and Freeminds yet haven't seen or read that testimony yet.

239

Watchtower Gives Up Explaining 607 BCE Date!

by VM44 in

this is a very important observation, that the watchtower has not tried to explain in print why 607 bce is the year for the destruction of jerusalem for the last 17 years!!!.

all that the watchtower has done over most of the last two decades is to repeat over and over the year "607bce" in its publications as if it is an unquestioned fact!.

the last time an explaination for the year was attempted by the watchtower was in 1988 when the "insight" volumes were published, but since then, no explaination for the validity of the year has appeared in print.. this must mean something, but what?

Sam the Man

[b]WT scholars[/b]

Name one.

[b]The claculation of 607 is based on biblical and secular evidence[/b]

Secular evidence points to the year 586.

[b]a loyalty to God's inspired Word[/b]

So inspired that....

Ezekiel predicted Babylon would conquer Egypt and was wrong.

Ezekiel predicts that Nebuchadrezzar of Babylon will conquer Egypt utterly destroying it, slaying and scattering it's people, and that it will stay uninhabited for 40 years.

In 568 BCE Nebuchadrezzar tried to conquer Egypt and Egypt survived with no apparent damage.

Aahmes ruled for another generation over a prosperous Egypt and lived to see Nebuchadrezzar die. No Egyptians were scattered or dispersed.

(Ezek 29:10 NRSV) therefore, I am against you, and against your channels, and I will make the land of Egypt an utter waste and desolation, from Migdol to Syene, as far as the border of Ethiopia.

(Ezek 29:11 NRSV) No human foot shall pass through it, and no animal foot shall pass through it; it shall be uninhabited forty years.

(Ezek 29:12 NRSV) I will make the land of Egypt a desolation among desolated countries; and her cities shall be a desolation forty years among cities that are laid waste. I will scatter the Egyptians among the nations, and disperse them among the countries.

(Ezek 30:10 NRSV) Thus says the Lord GOD: I will put an end to the hordes of Egypt, by the hand of King Nebuchadrezzar of Babylon.

(Ezek 30:11 NRSV) He and his people with him, the most terrible of the nations, shall be brought in to destroy the land; and they shall draw their swords against Egypt, and fill the land with the slain.

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Ezekiel predicts the destruction of Tyre (Tyrus) by Nebuchadrezzar and is wrong again.

Ezekiel incorrectly predicts that the island of Tyre (Tyrus) will be utterly destroyed and "made a bare rock" which will "never be rebuilt".

At the time of the prediction, it seemed like to be a sure thing, but 13 years of seige later Nebuchadrezzar gives up. The Island of Tyre is not destroyed or even conquered. It is not made "a bare rock" that will "never be rebuilt".

Ezekiel admits his error in Ezek 29:17

(Here the conquest of Trye looks like a sure thing so Ezekiel makes his prediction)

(Ezek 26:1 NRSV) In the eleventh year, on the first day of the month, the word of the LORD came to me:

(Ezek 26:7 NRSV) For thus says the Lord GOD: I will bring against Tyre from the north King Nebuchadrezzar of Babylon, king of kings, together with horses, chariots, cavalry, and a great and powerful army.

(Ezek 26:14 NRSV) I will make you a bare rock; you shall be a place for spreading nets. You shall never again be rebuilt, for I the LORD have spoken, says the Lord GOD.

(Ezek 27:32 NRSV) In their wailing they raise a lamentation for you, and lament over you: "Who was ever destroyed like Tyre in the midst of the sea?

(13 years of futile effort by Nebuchadrezzar later...)

(Ezek 29:17 NRSV) In the twenty-seventh year, in the first month, on the first day of the month, the word of the LORD came to me:

(Ezek 29:18 NRSV) Mortal, King Nebuchadrezzar of Babylon made his army labor hard against Tyre; every head was made bald and every shoulder was rubbed bare; yet neither he nor his army got anything from Tyre to pay for the labor that he had expended against it.

(So he then predicts that God decides to give Egypt to him instead, another Ezekiel prophecy that completely failed)

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Micah predicts the destruction of Jerusalem (which at the time was about to be invaded by Sennacherib and seemed inevitable) blaming the destruction on the corruption of the priesthood of Judah.

Jerusalem was sieged, but the destruction didn't happen.

A century later Jeremiah quotes Micah and tries to excuse the failed prophecy by saying that "the Lord changed his mind" about that destruction.

(Micah 3:12 NRSV) Therefore because of you Zion shall be plowed as a field; Jerusalem shall become a heap of ruins, and the mountain of the house a wooded height.

(~100 years and no destruction later...)

(Jer 26:18 NRSV) "Micah of Moresheth, who prophesied during the days of King Hezekiah of Judah, said to all the people of Judah: 'Thus says the LORD of hosts, Zion shall be plowed as a field; Jerusalem shall become a heap of ruins, and the mountain of the house a wooded height.'

(Jer 26:19 NRSV) Did King Hezekiah of Judah and all Judah actually put him to death? Did he not fear the LORD and entreat the favor of the LORD, and did not the LORD change his mind about the disaster that he had pronounced against them? ...

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The prophet Daniel incorrectly states that in the third year of the reign of King Jehoiakim Nebuchadnezzar is king and that he conquers Judah.

The third year of Jehoiakim's reign was 606 BCE, at which time Nebuchadnezzar was not yet king of Babylon. It was in 597 BCE that Nebuchadnezzar takes Jerusalem, by then Jehoiakim had died.

(Dan 1:1 NRSV) In the third year of the reign of King Jehoiakim of Judah, King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon came to Jerusalem and besieged it.

(Dan 1:2 NRSV) The Lord let King Jehoiakim of Judah fall into his power, as well as some of the vessels of the house of God. These he brought to the land of Shinar, and placed the vessels in the treasury of his gods.

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Jeremiah incorrectly predicts 70 years for the Babylonian exiles but they only lasted 59 years.

The 1rst exile started in 597 BCE when Nebuchadnezzar first takes Jerusalem and appoints Zedekiah king (Judah's last king). Nebuchadnezzar has temple equipment taken away.

The start of the 2nd exile was in 586 BCE when Nebuchadnezzar takes Jerusalem a second time putting down a rebellion and destroys the temple.

The end comes in 538 BCE when Cyrus takes Babylon and ends the Babylonian kingdom. Jews are then allowed to return to Judah.

(Jer 29:10 NRSV) For thus says the LORD: Only when Babylon's seventy years are completed will I visit you, and I will fulfill to you my promise and bring you back to this place.

To name a few. Sorry mate, the Bible is not inspired.

2

how to remove evil influence in your life in 2 easy steps

by rebel8 in

just wear a red string and join kabbalahism:the red string protects us from the influences of the evil eye.

evil eye is a very powerful negative force.

it refers to the unfriendly stare and unkind glances we sometimes get from people around us.

Sam the Man

Hi,

The Kabballa thing is just recycling of ancient Jewish traditions and laws. According to one author, David Icke, they were heavily involved with secret society movements in ancient times. But then, he did go on to say that he was the Son of God...

37

Hey Everyone.

by Sam the Man in

jw
friends

i've been lurking for some time and now its time for me to say hello.

i want to call myself sam on here to avoid any repercussions, whatever they may be i have learnt to cover my back in this life from the experiences i now ask if i may relate.

i was born into a black working class household in england to a mother who had remarried after splitting up with her first husband in barbados.

Sam the Man

Thanks CoolHandLuke,

Quality name and a quality film! I will take a look at that link, thank you. I am trying to write up something more to the point than the last post, without sounding so sparodic. It's hard when you have so much to say, so much to share.

Cheers.

14

NEW STUDENT IN NEED OF NEW ADVICE.

by stillAwitness in

jw
friends

.

my first semester in college is okay but how do you stay focused guys?

i wanna strive for a's instead of just a passing grade but sometimes i feel so blah when i wake up in the morning.

Sam the Man

Just take things as they come and you'll do alright.

37

Hey Everyone.

by Sam the Man in

jw
friends

i've been lurking for some time and now its time for me to say hello.

i want to call myself sam on here to avoid any repercussions, whatever they may be i have learnt to cover my back in this life from the experiences i now ask if i may relate.

i was born into a black working class household in england to a mother who had remarried after splitting up with her first husband in barbados.

Sam the Man

Thanks Daystar,

I have so much to say, and I feel that my post amounts to nothing more than jibbering nonsense, as if it was a feeble attempt at trying to tell you what happened! Well its a brief account nontheless. I didnt want to come barging in here with pages and pages of my life story!

I agree, it's mindblowing.

44

Are you weird too?

by kittyeatzjdubs in

jw
friends

do you have sorta weird habits in your day to day life?.

example: here at work, i will only use one stall in the bathroom.

the one second from the left.

Sam the Man

I wouldn't call that weirdness!

But I would say that I have certain similar habbits. For instance, when I am watching sport, I sit in the same position on the same chair, because if I move, I fear something may go badly wrong. It's bad luck to move seats in the middle of a game!

37

Hey Everyone.

by Sam the Man in

jw
friends

i've been lurking for some time and now its time for me to say hello.

i want to call myself sam on here to avoid any repercussions, whatever they may be i have learnt to cover my back in this life from the experiences i now ask if i may relate.

i was born into a black working class household in england to a mother who had remarried after splitting up with her first husband in barbados.

Sam the Man

Thankyou everyone, nice welcome.

tetrapod.sapien, I did not know that. To be honest, I could not even tell you who the last few presidents of the Society were. We had no idea who was on the illusive Governing Body - all we knew was never to question them.

37

Hey Everyone.

by Sam the Man in

jw
friends

i've been lurking for some time and now its time for me to say hello.

i want to call myself sam on here to avoid any repercussions, whatever they may be i have learnt to cover my back in this life from the experiences i now ask if i may relate.

i was born into a black working class household in england to a mother who had remarried after splitting up with her first husband in barbados.

Sam the Man

I've been lurking for some time and now its time for me to say hello.

I want to call myself Sam on here to avoid any repercussions, whatever they may be I have learnt to cover my back in this life from the experiences I now ask if I may relate.

I was born into a black working class household in England to a mother who had remarried after splitting up with her first husband in Barbados. She had married and come to England from that Island to live after the British government sent out a mass invite for immigrants in the late 50's and early 60's. In mid 1960 she gave birth to me, a little while later my sister and from that moment in time came the struggle which would send me on my path today. My father was never interested in religion and used to belittle my mother, her views, beliefs and faith as much as he possibly could. I recall times at night when my father used to come home drunk and dance with semi-clad women downstairs in an attempt to wind my mother down. Being fair, she wasn't exactly fair to him either, but I will get to that.

Since as early as I can remember, I was being dragged to the meeting, in the hope that someday the brainwashing would rub off on me and then I would come at will. That day certainly came, to the point where in the run up to the 90's I chose to 'serve Jehovah' and serve at Bethel. I left the stresses and tribulations of home life behind me and looked forward to my big adventure. I didn't know it then, but I was about to embark upon the most eye opening course of events that I could never have predicted.

The congregation elders had no problem OK'ing me for the Bethel service...I was at a convention in '89 when I heard an announcement that they wanted 'spiritual brothers' to help with this massive increase in interest and that this way I could really become close to God. I had been thinking about it for a long time and without much effort or heartbreak I decided to leave 'the lot of them to it' and clear off.

So the day of reckoning was finally upon me and I packed up for Bethel. From the moment I arrived, I knew that I was going to see things which would turn everything upside down. Two 'brothers' were in fistcuffs beating the hell out of each other. It was an arguement over the printing press, but to my amazement nobody was stepping in. The fight was allowed to continue for a long time before they broke away. The brothers carried on like it was a daily occurance... I learnt later on that it was.

One thing that struck me in the early days was the total lack of enthusiasm and humour. I was very quickly assigned to a task, working in the kitchens as a baker. The days were long, and with the work, you also had to somehow cram in all the monotonous bible study and meeting preperation. My initial enthusiasm was also failing. Other Bethelites, particularly younger ones, the general feeling was 'how long have you got left?' as if you were serving a jail setence. There used to be a minimum stay quota back then, I dont know about now, but somehow the rules bent for various Bethelites. If a Bethelite come from a respected Witness family, maybe 3rd generation, then the 2 year rule would be passed. Bethelites like me were somehow given 4 years. All this sounded very appealing to me on the outside, but when those 4 years were up, I got out fast. There were many people who served time like it was really that- time. Many left on the exact day...only a handful who had risen to higher positions - or obviously those already in such positions - chose to stay.

There were instances of extreeme, blatant hypocrisy. Bethel elders councilled younger ones on various things, but didnt apply that council to themselves. I was shocked to hear what was being said behind such elder's backs. I went into this place thinking that this was God's organization - I came out KNOWING that it wasnt. There were instances of binge drinking, drug abuse but the most unbelievable mind blowing thing that hit me hard was the homosexuality which went on. I cannot begin to tell you guys the truth behind those gates... many JW's would refuse to believe it, as did my mother when I attempted to tell her, and my sister also. I never met the guy, but one person by the name Chitty(commonly known as shitty) was homosexual, and it was well known. He used to be at Brooklyn. I found this out in the first few weeks, and let me tell you, it was a shock. He's dead now, and they all said it was AIDS after he had unprotected sex. I remember the words of a brother who returned from Bethel service a few months before I left for mine, and he turned to me and said 'Bethel will corrupt you'. I thought he was joking, pulling my leg. Rumours spread around Bethel like wildfire, and I found out many things about these so called Godly people - it shook my world.

This all seems like so long ago, since then I married and have two kids, and I am stuck in a totally JW set up, scared of getting out for I could lose my kids and my wife. I want neither to happen. I beleive the best thing to do is to remain annonymous yet help as many people as I can to see what kind of religion we are involved with here. I notice that this is a site for ex-Jw's, but please, if you are a JW, there are many people who would verify to these facts.

I hope I can be of assistance to anybody here.